Question:
Does the Republican Party's substitution of religion for science on global warming bother you?
Dana1981
2009-09-27 17:55:31 UTC
Personally as a scientist, I don't feel religion has any place in a discussion about a scientific issue. Apparently several Republican politicians don't feel the same way.

Sen. James Inhofe (R-OK): "God’s still up there. We’re going through these cycles. …"

Rep. John Shimkus (R-IL): after citing several passages in the Bible - "man will not destroy this Earth, this Earth will not be destroyed by a flood...I do believe God's word is infallible, unchanging, perfect..."

Rep. Joe Barton (R-Texas), the ranking member of the Energy and Commerce Committee: “He’s one of my champions,” Barton said. “I wish I had another dozen John Shimkuses on the committee.”

Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey (R-TX): “the lord God almighty made the heavens and the Earth … to his satisfaction … it is quite pretentious of we little weaklings here on earth to think that, that we are going to destroy God’s creation”
http://climateprogress.org/2009/09/27/inhofe-global-warming-god%E2%80%99s-still-up-there-natural-cycles/#more-11877

Regardless of which side of the issue you fall on, I hope we can all agree that religion has no place in a scientific debate. Does it bother you that so many Republican politicians are substituting religion for science?
29 answers:
2009-09-27 18:38:38 UTC
Dana,



This may be a first...I agree with you.



I'm a scientist, and a Catholic. I agree completely, the two are not compatible issues. Of course, I'm also a conservative...so I'm not exactly a big fan of how the Republican party has been behaving for the last nine years.
2009-09-28 09:38:03 UTC
It's a very old problem Dana.



There is no question that hypocritical demagogues manipulate the masses. The vast Red middle of the country has little idea they are being played.



Are politicians really that dim that they believe in the literal iterpretation of the Bible? Do they lie (to themselves even) seeking to manipulate the masses?



Yes and yes.



The cornucopian economists are direct descendents of the Christian monotheists. God made us in His image and gave us the world to use. Resources are unlimited. Human ingenuity can overcome any problem, even fundamental thermodynamic problems; because we are special, different from, apart from and "above" the natural world. The usual rules don't apply to us.



Science doesn’t care if maybe later someone is going to swoop down and save us. Science doesn’t care if the degenerate hippie atheists turn out to be right. Science only cares about facts. "Science is brutally agnostic". - John Rennie



Observational evidence shows we are having an ecological problem.



They can't prove there is a God and I can't prove there isn't. Let's call it a draw and all become agnostic.



I like the new gospel of religious environmentalism: God gave us the world to protect so that it will still be here for future generations.



Good enough for me.
triphip2
2009-09-27 23:26:45 UTC
It's funny but you can take just about any quote they throw at you from the bible and contradict their argument. For example:



--Rep. John Shimkus (R-IL): after citing several passages in the Bible - "man will not destroy this Earth, this Earth will not be destroyed by a flood...I do believe God's word is infallible, unchanging, perfect..."--



Ok, well no one is saying man is going to destroy the earth... In fact man contributing to global warming may help the earth in the long run. Global warming is threatening life. Earth and life, all though connected, are not the same thing... No scientist has ever claimed that global warming will destroy the earth that I know of... In fact a meteorite the size of the moon could slam into the earth, and it would not be destroyed. Most of the life would be however...



--Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey (R-TX): “the lord God almighty made the heavens and the Earth … to his satisfaction … it is quite pretentious of we little weaklings here on earth to think that, that we are going to destroy God’s creation”--



I never read "it is quite pretentious of we little weaklings here on earth to that we are going to destroy God's creation" in the bible... I also don't know how the quote "the lord God almighty made the heavens and the Earth" supports that statement.. But then this person is confusing the destruction of earth with threat to life yet again...



I can go on and on but I think I've made my point. I think it is more "pretentious" of people to misinterpret or manipulate God's word to try and prove their point, especially with political bias. Can't get much more atheistic than that... Hypocrisy is a human fallacy though, it's forgivable.
NLBNLB
2009-09-28 10:38:28 UTC
You know me Dana,



I am a man of faith, however...











...I do not think faith is something to use just to fill the gaps in education, especially in what should be high school physics.



* Experimental physics show me the greenhouse effect is real and verifiable



* Statistics and measurements show me we are emitting greenhouse gasese at an alarming rate



* All scientific papers show a warming trend as a result of this increase in greenhouse gases concentrations. Most papers conclude to an expected strong warming. This is also what we can expect from measurements and observations.
Kilroy Roboto
2009-09-28 18:41:29 UTC
How can religion be taken seriously in a scientific debate when the religious cannot even agree among themselves the meaning of their bible? (This applies to all religions and holy books).



Full on contradictions and impossibilities, these holy books do not stand up to even the simplest form of scrutiny. Therefore, I cannot accept any of it as proof for anything, much less allow it to enter into a scientific query.
Tumbleina
2009-09-27 17:59:58 UTC
I'm a Republican, and I absolutely agree that religion should not be a part of strictly scientific discussions. It probably bothers me just as much as it does you.



However, I've seen scientific "evidence" proving that global warming is man-made, and I've also seen scientific "evidence" proving that it has nothing to do with humans' existence at all. So if we're going to talk science, I just really want to know what the real story is.
Alex_J
2009-09-27 18:41:23 UTC
Yes, and I've always wondered why some people think there's even any religious argument against it. Most aren't saying Earth will be "destroyed" by a flood (stricken with coastal and regional flooding, yes, along with drought on the other end of the hydrological cycle, and a number of other effects). And what does "to God's satisfaction" mean? That everything is set in stone/being divinely controlled moment by moment? Or that God just set things up for humans to respect and take care of?



Heyyy: I've yet to see any successfully reviewed scientific evidence that the global average warming of the last few decades is mostly natural, or that decades of science on the CO2/methane greenhouse effect and it's feedbacks is invalid.
4seasons_7777
2009-09-27 19:12:11 UTC
So you are a Scientist' i am just a listener,a reader,and once an inventor that's what they call me But I never call myself like that i guess i'm just an "idea thinker" is it Scientifically to say that in Earth's Time there is 12 Hours of Daytime & 12 Hours of Nigh time and that is a Total of 24 solid Hours that is the pattern of How they make the Time Sand and Later on your Grand father Clock now due to recent Technology from the Bible itself foretold that the Time/Wrist Watch Manufacturing all of this knowledge came from the Holy Scriptures So Science is Nothing' to Compare in Religion's Book the "Bible"
▐▀▐▀α▌
2009-09-27 19:15:05 UTC
For a scientist your supposed " question " as it relates to the Republican Party bothers me.



Anyway,the continuous debate over religion and science is a non issue for me.
Didier Drogba
2009-09-28 08:35:21 UTC
Ideology has no place in Science. Knee-jerk anti-humanism, anti-individualism, Club of Rome anti-growth-ism, is also an ideology.



http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/8/10/92300.shtml
Joseph L
2009-09-27 22:33:07 UTC
Your question is typical of the desperation to prove your argument in spite of the facts. Take 4 quotes out of context, then jump to an unsubstantiated blanket conclusion.

If you want to talk about people who believe in something as a matter of faith rather than science, AGW is a good place to start.

Where has it gone for the last decade?

Have faith, the CO2 god will not forsake you, maybe.
kuroi
2009-09-27 19:37:54 UTC
But if only four people are saying this how do you purport it to be the view of a whole party?
andy
2009-09-28 04:12:32 UTC
You are correct that religion has no place in science. At the same time though, the scientific evidence continues to point to climate change being effected more by natural (God) then by man.
David
2009-09-27 18:52:43 UTC
I got the same impression as Alex J: I mean they're making a straw man argument by saying the planet won't be destroyed...something that anyone with half a brain could support scientifically...yet they STILL have to use the Bible?



Not to say there aren't dumb democrats or smart republicans...but damn the dumb republicans are dumb.
bravozulu
2009-09-27 19:04:02 UTC
Unlike many leftists, the Republicans don't have talking points that they aren't allowed to deviate from. They are free to express their religion or anything else and normal people don't think they are speaking for all Republicans. It bothers me much more how science gets hijacked by radicals and their propaganda.
DaveH
2009-09-28 01:13:38 UTC
Like the majority of the world I do not come from the US.



I care not one little bit for your petty lib/conservative spats; they are utterly meaningless in the context of this AGW discussion.



Dana... it's time you got a girlfriend!
Romantic Pragmatist
2009-09-28 04:05:07 UTC
I'm a Christian and having careers in the science, historical, sociological & cultural fields amongst other other things such as economics, law & theology is something I'm very interested in and in fact while I'm off to a late start, that's what I'm going to be going back to school for, but to tell the truth, I have long been ashamed of the republican party's manipulations and twisting of the Bible and of the minds of many Christians who for some odd reason have been letting themselves be tricked by the lies of the republican party. Here's the thing, I'm not conservative and I'm not totally liberal, although I swing to the left on some issues and swing to the right on some other issues. I know that both the republican and libertarian parties are totally EPIC FAIL with their "Laissez Faire" economic ideas and policies when it comes to economics, because without regulation, the weathy billionaires and say people who have at least 100 million dollars who are majority stockholders, sole proprietorship company owners & the other wealthy CEOs they have working for them as yes men for them have been ruining the economies of the US and other countries for nearly a century, especially ever since the democrat Woodrow Wilson was tricked into signing the Treasury Act in 1913, which he regretted signing after he realized what he'd done. Here's the thing too - that stupid bailout was more for the wealthy owners & CEOs of the companies that's been ruining the country with hiring people to only exploit the working people by using them with hiring them to only spit them out with layoffs while cheating them of their retirement pensions & plans. REGULATIONS ARE NEEDED TO KEEP GREEDY NARCISSISTIC LAZY SELF CENTERED SELFISH WEALTH A**holes from ruining everything for everybody, because people that greedy are so stupidly obsessed about getting wealth & power that they'll destroy their own health & their own family to get wealth & power, so of course those same wealthy people will not care if they destroy the planet with global warming either, which includes destroying every living being on earth.

That being said, Global Warming does happen every time the planet's magnetic fields shift the poles to the opposite end, as in the North Pole becomes the South Pole and the South Pole becomes the North Pole and that's also what's happening now, however this sort of thing does NOT happen often - more like every so many thousands of years. AND as I said, I'm a Christian & I don't believe in Evolution in especially human & maybe animal life for one, because mutations and adaptions are not the same thing as evolution & besides evolution just being a theory because of evolution evidence being manufactured bulls**t from errors & falsifications of evidence, but taught in classrooms anyway to be "politically correct" - Enoch in the old testament came up with the 364 year a day calendar long before Archimedes came up with the π formula (the Pi formula). Which the π formula is probably the closest, humankind has come to describing how it's possible that God has no beginning or end. Anyway, while Global Warming naturally happens, when it gets to it's peak, it's a lot, lot worse of a thing that happens than people normally think of things that naturally happen and in this case humankind isn't ready for it, especially since so many idiots believe it won't happen or refuse to care about what will happen to them when it gets to it's worst AND this time around it will be far far worse than in previous times because besides people not being ready for the worst, the pollution of this planet has most definitely gotten this planet at it's worst for effects when the worst of Global Warming hits. Why? When magnetic fields have shifted the poles before, there wasn't pollution when the magnetic fields shifted before, such as pollution that we have now and IT IS a proven fact that man made FLUOROCARBONS ARE A DANGER TO THE PLANET AND PEOPLE'S HEALTH. As for people who dispute that, spray a bunch of cans of old style/old fashioned hair spray like Aqua Net down your throats or put your mouths over the tail pipe of a car & inhale for a long while without breathing air - of course hypocrites who say there's no global warming won't do that, which helps prove what hypocrites they are. This planet like everything else has a normal set balance of carbons that flow from eruptions & gases from the earth which rotate back into the earth including in the oceans - by a normal set balance I mean a normal set amount that's natural and going above that level of carbons is not the natural balance God made this planet to have for it to function right. Here's a proper arguement - IF IT'S NOT NATURAL TO CLONE PEOPLE THEN HOW IS IT NATURAL TO POLLUTE THE PLANET? - ANSWER THAT CONSERVATIVES! Oh and by the way, even though I think republicans & libertarians are idiots with their ideas of "Laissez Faire" economics, I think Obama & the Clintons can't be trusted either because I found out over this last year, they've also been the willing puppets of the World Bank Group just like the Bushes & a lot of republicans have been. Those who don't know what the World Bank Group is -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Bank_Group

Oh and while I like certain people in the Green Party's economic ideas, the Green Party is too pacifist and also ANARCHISTS ARE EPIC FAIL for the most part also, although Leo Tolstoy the Christian Anarchist I like, ALSO COMMUNISTS, MARXISTS, AND FACISTS ARE ALSO NARCISSISTIC SELF CENTERED LOSERS WHO ARE EPIC FAIL AS WELL.

What political idealogy do I have? I'm Christian who's a progressive moderate who knows extremism in either direction is insane and I just happen to be a Punk Rocker too by the way and no I'm not an anarchist or communist and I'm not too liberal or especially I'm NOT conservative or facist either - I absolutely hate nazis or other facists & I hate communism too. I did however used to be a very active activist who's organization even got on the national news years ago. I am a progressive moderate & I know that extremism in either direction is totally insane because nothing gets done, when everything is torn down just for the sake of political idealogy! Save the planet from being destroyed by the wealthy scum who are so dumb they will destroy themselves and the planet just to have more power & money!
davem
2009-09-27 18:30:49 UTC
Religion shouldn't enter the debate, but it has. Democrat Al Gore is very religious...actually he met Tipper at church.



Works both ways.
unplugged
2009-09-27 19:34:24 UTC
lol well they're republicans, what do you expect?



religion shouldn't even have a part in politics!!!





two could play at this game! if you really cared for god, why would you kill the animals he created and pump fumes into the air he made and basically destroy the earth he made for you?



ha, a taste of your own medicine republicans!
Nata T
2009-09-27 20:08:01 UTC
you fit the definition of a bigot. Extending the profile of a few to a whole society. May you seek professional help with this.
?
2009-09-27 18:14:31 UTC
Yes it does bother me, even though I'm not a U.S. citizen.
2009-09-27 20:06:20 UTC
Just one problem. Most of the "evidence" for global warming is religious evidence, not scientific evidence.
2009-09-27 19:01:01 UTC
Hugely.



Thank goodness I'm "unaffilitated" or I would have to be mad at them.
2009-09-27 18:53:19 UTC
It is downright dangerous and makes America look all the more like a complete laughingstock.



The GOP is becoming the entrenched right wing christian know-nothing minority. and yet they are the loudest on claiming they are the authorities on everything. This is stalling progress on science.



Either we stop it or it stops us. Period.
oakhc23
2009-09-27 18:30:32 UTC
Nah, not really. It kind of makes me feel all warm inside... global warm you know?
Wood Smoke ~ Free2Bme!
2009-09-27 20:55:09 UTC
It is no surprise.



...it is lulu world.
2009-09-27 18:05:40 UTC
The end of your world is not necessarily the end of "thee world".
Dr Yes level 9 since 1999
2009-09-27 18:02:33 UTC
This comes as no surprise. I have been saying all along that the deniers movement was also the creationists. It is good that they are finally exposing their true beliefs, and showing the world who they really are.
?
2009-09-27 18:01:29 UTC
Does it matter we really dont have any power anymore thanks to socialist i mean democrates


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