Question:
Now that AGW has been proven undeniably true, will the deniers admit they were wrong?
Dana1981
2009-09-28 13:00:13 UTC
I thought I'd try one of these "now that X has happened [no, X has not actually happened], will Y happen?" questions that deniers so love to ask.

The most recent one here:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090928110434AA0CtpU&r=w#RsR4WTC1UGLXAOZlOfd26Pr22G__DAD6hVJeJW5TpX.ayPFJ4ZHX

Claiming the 'hockey stick' has been disproven, linking to a blog article which doesn't even reference the hockey stick. It's talking about an apparent divergence in data from an ice core taken from Yamal (Russia).

Rather than examine the link and correct the error, the deniers who answered either claimed it was a "good question", or used the opportunity to babble about their preferred denial talking point (surface stations, ad hominems, etc.).

Since we see these kinds of unsubstantiated denier claims disguised as questions, I thought I'd try one.

Now that AGW has been proven undeniably true, will the deniers admit they were wrong?
Fifteen answers:
Dr Yes level 9 since 1999
2009-09-28 21:11:58 UTC
HA HA HA! You've got to be kidding. After all the effort they've put into their denials there is no way they will ever admit to being wrong. They will just call it a conspiracy or something.
anonymous
2009-09-29 01:57:03 UTC
In my Opinion, No Amount of "Unequivocal Supportive Hard Evidence" Will Dispell the Paranoid Delusions of Some, I Want to Think that the Truth Will Ultimately Always Win Out Over Any Delusion. I Think Most people (Whether Left or Right) Will Respond to Reason. But, In this Case, we don't Have the Luxury of Time.
Didier Drogba
2009-09-28 14:51:54 UTC
The divergence is between the temperature proxies that (when plugged into Mann's model) form a hockey stick shape for past centuries and the temperature record. When you take more recent tree ring samples from the same trees, the tree rings (interpreted the way the historic tree ring record was interpreted to come up with the hockey stick) don't show warming from 1980-2000 even though we know it warmed from 1980-2000.



That means that just because the tree rings, interpreted the way the models interpret them, don't show the MWP doesn't mean it didn't happen. It means that tree rings are bad proxies.
?
2016-11-04 11:42:42 UTC
What are you attempting to get me to have faith in, what do you want to tutor to me? That the earth is warming? I even have constantly conceded to this fact, That it particularly is unheard of? we are meant to have faith that all of us understand the upward thrust in temperature is unheard of in line with thousands and thousands of years of reconstructed temperatures, proxy archives it particularly is ultimately as precise through fact the thermometer on my porch. humorous you point out tree ring archives particularly, the comparable archives that replaced into purely miscalculated from around 1970 forward and have been given thrown out through fact it did not adventure particularly tool archives. however the the remainder of the proxy archives is as precise as my porch thermometer. That it particularly is brought about by making use of guy? i assume i could could desire to make certain the "formula" for our climate and come across a variable(s) that could desire to be bodily replaced, then shall we try our administration over worldwide temperature by making use of enhancing something different than CO2. regrettably the climate is a lot greater complicated than turning on the air conditioner and placing the thermostat, now of that i'm specific and that i've got considered sufficient historic evidence of that to understand that if we our making an effect that effect is comparable to history of climate for the duration of my lifetime and from what i've got considered in documentaries or study in books the effect of climate on the human species pre-AGW replaced right into a great way worse. That climate is getting worse? For this i could want particularly evidence that the climate is getting worse. i've got not considered any, i've got considered people element to droughts in deserts, floods on river deltas, hurricanes, islands disappearing, greater snow, much less snow, worldwide warming precipitated water erosion, prostitution, genocide, polar undergo filicide, the record is countless and encompasses all. i could additionally want to make certain greater precise predictions and much less pointing to three unpredictable organic version that threw off the prediction.
booM
2009-09-29 11:00:19 UTC
No, because they drank the kool aid. And they'll give everyone who actually GETS your question a thumbs down, even though you explain very carefully the point of your question.
anonymous
2009-09-28 19:03:22 UTC
people like that usally ignore everything that is true and not on there side and go on about something else. i deal with liberals all the time who think there always right.



it will most likly be. "so what if its wrong, the ice still melts."



yes the ice does melt at the edge of the polar caps they always melt at the edge and that edge grows everyyear.
Nata T
2009-09-28 16:12:58 UTC
One has to question your motives, you must have a huge bet that relays on getting people mad at you or that you work for a place that receives monet from the AGW lie, do you work for Al Gore? Show me where 100% consensus exist? Since you can't, your question has no legitimate answer. Get over it. you are worse than the people pushing HHO.
titou
2009-09-29 07:40:35 UTC
Enough already. The strident tones of your repeated postings about this and personal comments about the validity and thinking process of those who disagree with you is doing as much harm as good regarding this important issue -- maybe more harm than good.
davem
2009-09-28 21:31:04 UTC
I think you love your 'NASA-James Hansen' T-shirt too much.



If agw is ever proven to be true, I'll wear one myself. Heck, I'll wear Gore's too. But that will never happen.
JimZ
2009-09-28 13:49:00 UTC
Astonishingly, wormwar gets a down arrow when he nailed it. You should go back and read the article again, this time without your green tinted glasses. It is all about hocky sticks. Did you even bother to read it? Again, astonishing!!!!
anonymous
2009-09-28 13:37:25 UTC
What amazes me is that the AGW zealot hoaxers can't even understand the basic science behind that post. Incredible considering they spend so much time spewing their lies on Yahoo answers.



For the dimwitted hoaxers who have comprehension issues, here's a summary:



Also, it's tree ring data not ice core data as our favorite ignorant questioner has stated incorrectly by Dana (he lied).



1. In a 1995 Nature paper by Briffa, Schweingruber et al., they reported that 1032 was the coldest year of the millennium – right in the middle of the Medieval Warm Period. But the reconstruction depended on 3 short tree ring cores from the Polar Urals whose dating was very problematic. http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=877.



2. In the 1990s, Schweingruber obtained new Polar Urals data with more securely-dated cores for the MWP. Neither Briffa nor Schweingruber published a new Polar Urals chronology using this data. An updated chronology with this data would have yielded a very different picture, namely a warm medieval era and no anomalous 20th century. Rather than using the updated Polar Urals series, Briffa calculated a new chronology from Yamal – one which had an enormous hockey stick shape. After its publication, in virtually every study, Hockey Team members dropped Polar Urals altogether and substituted Briffa’s Yamal series in its place.

http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=528. PS: The exception to this pattern was Esper et al (Science) 2002, which used the combined Polar Urals data. But Esper refused to provide his data. Steve got it in 2006 after extensive quasi-litigation with Science (over 30 email requests and demands).



3. Subsequently, countless studies appeared from the Team that not only used the Yamal data in place of the Polar Urals, but where Yamal had a critical impact on the relative ranking of the 20th century versus the medieval era.

http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3099



4. Meanwhile Briffa repeatedly refused to release the Yamal measurement data used inhis calculation despite multiple uses of this series at journals that claimed to require data archiving. E.g. http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=542



5. Then one day Briffa et al. published a paper in 2008 using the Yamal series, again without archiving it. However they published in a Phil Tran Royal Soc journal which has strict data sharing rules. Steve got on the case. http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3266



6. A short time ago, with the help of the journal editors, the data was pried loose and appeared at the CRU web site. http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7142



7. It turns out that the late 20th century in the Yamal series has only 10 tree ring chronologies after 1990 (5 after 1995), making it too thin a sample to use (according to conventional rules). But the real problem wasn’t that there were only 5-10 late 20th century cores- there must have been a lot more. They were only using a subset of 10 cores as of 1990, but there was no reason to use a small subset. (Had these been randomly selected, this would be a thin sample, but perhaps passable. But it appears that they weren’t randomly selected.)

http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7142



8. Faced with a sample in the Taymir chronology that likely had 3-4 times as many series as the Yamal chronology, Briffa added in data from other researchers’ samples taken at the Avam site, some 400 km away. He also used data from the Schweingruber sampling program circa 1990, also taken about 400 km from Taymir. Regardless of the merits or otherwise of pooling samples from such disparate locations, this establishes a precedent where Briffa added a Schweingruber site to provide additional samples. This, incidentally, ramped up the hockey-stickness of the (now Avam-) Taymir chronology.

http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7158



9. Steve thus looked for data from other samples at or near the Yamal site that could have been used to increase the sample size in the Briffa Yamal chronology. He quickly discovered a large set of 34 Schweingruber samples from living trees. Using these instead of the 12 trees in the Briffa (CRU) group that extend to the present yields Figure 2, showing a complete divergence in the 20th century. Thus the Schweingruber data completely contradicts the CRU series. Bear in mind the close collaboration of Schweingruber and Briffa all this time, and their habit of using one another’s data as needed.



10. Combining the CRU and Schweingruber data yields the green line in the 3rd figure above. While it doesn’t go down at the end, neither does it go up, and it yields a medieval era warmer than the present, on the standard interpretation. Thus the key ingredient in a lot of the studies that have been invoked to support the Hockey Stick, namely the Briffa Yamal series (red line above) depends on the influence of a thin subsample of post-1990 chronologies and the exclusion of the (much larger) collection of readily-available Schweingruber data for the same area.
Waas up
2009-09-28 13:53:37 UTC
No they will not. Obviously it is too complicated for their minds to get a handle on it.



1) It happened before, so it is happening again, big deal.



2) As the Arctic melts the Antarctic is gaining more ice.



3) Weather is too complex and us mear humans can not effect the overall temperature.



4) My favorite, really someone else is in charge so whatever we do here is irrelevant.



Just a couple of the BS arguments, meaningless when it comes to the overall issue, distraction seems to be their best argument (and it is not even a argument)
Ottawa Mike
2009-09-28 16:39:43 UTC
"Now that AGW has been proven undeniably true...."



Really, so now you know more than the IPCC. Fascinating....
David
2009-09-28 13:07:48 UTC
Don't forget to insult, report and block anyone who does not 'follow the rules' by disagreeing with the premise of your question.

https://answersrip.com/question/index?qid=20090921094249AAxO3ij&show=7#profile-info-uPDycaqSaa
Baccheus
2009-09-28 14:22:39 UTC
It doesn't matter. Nobody imporatant takes them seriously. They are impotent.


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
Loading...